I had been waiting to read about this from the small circle of blogs that I regularly visit, but it wasn’t until this evening that I read from Akin’s blog about the most shocking and disturbing story I have ever heard. It is so shocking that each time I see it on TV I feel a strange crawly feeling on my skin. I guess beasts live among us, in the guise of humans, but I didn’t think that this kind of beast existed. Or who could have guessed that a person had his own daughter locked up behind electronically-secured doors in his own cellar, was regularly visiting her for sex, and had seven children by her? It is so outrageous that I felt that each comma in the last sentence should have been replaced by an exclamation mark.
That is really strange indeed, but a more dumbfounding thing is that nobody, not even Josef Frizl’s wife, was aware of what was going on. Presumably, Mr. Frizl had been delivering his daughter of their babies, buying supplies for them, including babies things, a large quantity of food supply etc. etc. and nobody noticed anything different, anything suspicious. I think this says a lot about many advanced European societies, where the lack of interest in ones neighbour’s business is seen indeed as civility, something to be praised.
Ha, I remember Robert Putnam‘s works on social capital, where he lamented that Americans were ‘bowling alone‘, a metaphor for the increasing I-mind-my-business-you-mind-yours lifestyle, and for a decline in associational life. Although I disagree with some of his conclusions, I would like to point it out that one gets a Mr. Frizl when associational life becomes jaundiced, and people get so atomised that the real unit in the society is really ones family.
Austria has a lot to do. About two years ago we learnt about the case Natascha Kampusch, the girl who was adopted abducted and kept in a cellar for 8 years by her captor.
I cannot pretend that my imagination is wild enough to deal with what might happen to the children. My hope is that the Austrian social service is well equipped enough to deal with the challenges of helping the children gain a semblance of normal life.
I heard about this briefly on the evening news and saw a picture of the alleged perpetrator. This story is bewildering. To imagine that child services (the Austrian version) repeatedly checked in on Frizl’s residence but were unaware of the pure and unadulterated evil that was going on in there…
May God have mercy on us and protect us all from such clearly evil people. If this man could do that to his own child then I refuse to imagine what he would do to someone he didn’t know if he felt the urge.
And as for his wife, the mother of the victim, she and everyone else in that family will need serious therapy. I can’t imagine what kind of mental hold her husband had over her, or the many issues she had that prevented her from knowing what was happening in her own house. These incidents are far too common.
Anyway, glad to see you are back.
I heard about this briefly on the evening news and saw a picture of the alleged perpetrator. This story is bewildering. To imagine that child services (the Austrian version) repeatedly checked in on Frizl’s residence but were unaware of the pure and unadulterated evil that was going on in there…
May God have mercy on us and protect us all from such clearly evil people. If this man could do that to his own child then I refuse to imagine what he would do to someone he didn’t know if he felt the urge.
And as for his wife, the mother of the victim, she and everyone else in that family will need serious therapy. I can’t imagine what kind of mental hold her husband had over her, or the many issues she had that prevented her from knowing what was happening in her own house. These incidents are far too common.
Anyway, glad to see you are back.
Hi there – yes we also saw this on the news here. Well here in South Africa – so much is going on that a lot of real hectic stuff is not even making the news anymore – and terrible things like this story is kind of commonplace here. Can you imagine that? And people carry on with life as “normal” – and I feel that life should stop and we must attend to all the social problems right here and now – unfortunately the problems are sooo huge – that I am not sure what might be the right solution – I am sort of an outsider – the solutions must come from within … hmmm . I am thinking of this daily. In the past decades so many families got separated – the family unit is most of the time non-existent, and in the families that are together – there is sooo much violance – uh it’s tough for a lot of people here – and this is why it’s sooo amazing that even in these circumstances artistic talent is in bloom – amazing music is a constant – hm I have a lot to learn from these unbelievable artists ….
Hi there – yes we also saw this on the news here. Well here in South Africa – so much is going on that a lot of real hectic stuff is not even making the news anymore – and terrible things like this story is kind of commonplace here. Can you imagine that? And people carry on with life as “normal” – and I feel that life should stop and we must attend to all the social problems right here and now – unfortunately the problems are sooo huge – that I am not sure what might be the right solution – I am sort of an outsider – the solutions must come from within … hmmm . I am thinking of this daily. In the past decades so many families got separated – the family unit is most of the time non-existent, and in the families that are together – there is sooo much violance – uh it’s tough for a lot of people here – and this is why it’s sooo amazing that even in these circumstances artistic talent is in bloom – amazing music is a constant – hm I have a lot to learn from these unbelievable artists ….
“I think this says a lot about many advanced European societies, where the lack of interest in ones neighbour’s business is seen indeed as civility, something to be praised.” It’s good you wrote “many” because not everywhere Europeans lack an interest for their neighbour’s business.
In my little-village society of 300+ people this is definitely not the case. I’m in London now and nevertheless I hear a lot about the things that are going on there: Right now there is that problem with one pet-dog that kills cats. Since some of those cats are pets or at least semi-pets, people – especially my mum – are not so happy and are complaining to the owner.
Also, whenever I need wine, I still get it at a special neighbour-discount from across the street. I just tell me mum and then she picks it up. That’s probably one of the many occasions my mum updates people about my whereabouts etc. When she still used to take the bus (before my brother learned to drive a car), even some bus drivers knew where I was studying.
A few days ago, I visited my grandparents and saw the other side of village life: My grandparents have started a mini-war with their neighbours and I know all about it (though I’m there for only about 2 weeks during the whole year!). Here in London, I don’t know my neighbours, so I can’t have any grudge against them.
So, there you got a few counterexamples! However, if somebody is a good liar and has the facilities to keep up a facade, I imagine that things may go unnoticed even in a place where people mind each other’s business – though probably not as easily.
“I think this says a lot about many advanced European societies, where the lack of interest in ones neighbour’s business is seen indeed as civility, something to be praised.” It’s good you wrote “many” because not everywhere Europeans lack an interest for their neighbour’s business.
In my little-village society of 300+ people this is definitely not the case. I’m in London now and nevertheless I hear a lot about the things that are going on there: Right now there is that problem with one pet-dog that kills cats. Since some of those cats are pets or at least semi-pets, people – especially my mum – are not so happy and are complaining to the owner.
Also, whenever I need wine, I still get it at a special neighbour-discount from across the street. I just tell me mum and then she picks it up. That’s probably one of the many occasions my mum updates people about my whereabouts etc. When she still used to take the bus (before my brother learned to drive a car), even some bus drivers knew where I was studying.
A few days ago, I visited my grandparents and saw the other side of village life: My grandparents have started a mini-war with their neighbours and I know all about it (though I’m there for only about 2 weeks during the whole year!). Here in London, I don’t know my neighbours, so I can’t have any grudge against them.
So, there you got a few counterexamples! However, if somebody is a good liar and has the facilities to keep up a facade, I imagine that things may go unnoticed even in a place where people mind each other’s business – though probably not as easily.
Even though humanity allover the world has its horrors known and unknown, I am surprised to see the europeans, in particular, shocked. Their culture is so isolating and moreover this is considered civilization or advanced society! The more well of (materially) the more the risk of isolation and the more at risk its members are to getting mentally sick. The culture of “minding ones own business” is a culture of permetting abuse on the weaker members of society and within families. It is also a selfish culture because you have the lincence by society not have to help anybody in trouble. This shocking story should not cover a difused culture where abuse is the norm.
I am surpised how emotionally numb the austrian authorities were in consigning Elizabeth Fritzl back to her family after the attempt to escape and her father had been accused of sexual abuse and secondly, how they could have allowed him to bring up ANY CHILDREN (his own and adopted ones) with the accusations already on record.
These are the questions Austrians and the whole human society should ask themselves. There are “millions” of “dungeons” abusing children in all forms and we continue to worry about “food” self suffiency in the third world? If parts of the third world is drying of hunger, this “first” world is in psychological agony and will get worse with time if Alice Miller’s message is not taken serious.
Thanks for reading
Sofia.
Even though humanity allover the world has its horrors known and unknown, I am surprised to see the europeans, in particular, shocked. Their culture is so isolating and moreover this is considered civilization or advanced society! The more well of (materially) the more the risk of isolation and the more at risk its members are to getting mentally sick. The culture of “minding ones own business” is a culture of permetting abuse on the weaker members of society and within families. It is also a selfish culture because you have the lincence by society not have to help anybody in trouble. This shocking story should not cover a difused culture where abuse is the norm.
I am surpised how emotionally numb the austrian authorities were in consigning Elizabeth Fritzl back to her family after the attempt to escape and her father had been accused of sexual abuse and secondly, how they could have allowed him to bring up ANY CHILDREN (his own and adopted ones) with the accusations already on record.
These are the questions Austrians and the whole human society should ask themselves. There are “millions” of “dungeons” abusing children in all forms and we continue to worry about “food” self suffiency in the third world? If parts of the third world is drying of hunger, this “first” world is in psychological agony and will get worse with time if Alice Miller’s message is not taken serious.
Thanks for reading
Sofia.
Dear Sofia,
“Their culture is so isolating” I have already proven you wrong with my last comment, so I won’t dwelve on that topic again.
“you have the lincence by society not have to help anybody in trouble.” That, my dear, sounds pretty much like Nigeria (if we continue in the line of your over-generalizations).
Let me give you an example: I have seen two people laying on the floor. Both were obviously in need of help – one in Ibadan, the other one in London. I didn’t help in either case. Why? In London, there were already a couple of people just doing so: calling the ambulance, asking the person how he was doing etc. In Ibadan, there was nobody concerned about that body at the edge of a street. I (the European) asked whether we couldn’t help that poor fellow. Can you imagine what the Nigerians said? They advised me to stay away because the person laying there could be part of a gang of armed robbers or he could be mad and attack whoever tries to aid him or, if one helped and he died, the person might be accused of murder or … I admit I got a bit scared at some point and left.
Another example: A Nigerian friend of mine had an accident somewhere in the South-West of Nigeria. The driver died, my friend was badly insured and who knows in what shape the other passengers were. Cars drove by but nobody did anything. It took five hours until help arrived. That is unimaginable in my country! Here it is illegal to pass the scene of an accident when it is obvious that people are insured and that there is nobody who takes care of them (or at least has called an ambulance).
A final example, now from Europe: When I was a kid, I once took my bike and left for town. The road there is quite curvy, hilly and people drive way too fast on it. Of course, my little brother couldn’t keep his mouth shut and told my mum. So she got all worried but she didn’t have a car. So what did she do? Simple: she went to the next-door neighbour, told him the problem and together they came for me and picked me and my bike up on my way back home.
Please, what Josef Fritzl has done is monstrous. However, don’t make the mistake to over-generalize.
Dear Sofia,
“Their culture is so isolating” I have already proven you wrong with my last comment, so I won’t dwelve on that topic again.
“you have the lincence by society not have to help anybody in trouble.” That, my dear, sounds pretty much like Nigeria (if we continue in the line of your over-generalizations).
Let me give you an example: I have seen two people laying on the floor. Both were obviously in need of help – one in Ibadan, the other one in London. I didn’t help in either case. Why? In London, there were already a couple of people just doing so: calling the ambulance, asking the person how he was doing etc. In Ibadan, there was nobody concerned about that body at the edge of a street. I (the European) asked whether we couldn’t help that poor fellow. Can you imagine what the Nigerians said? They advised me to stay away because the person laying there could be part of a gang of armed robbers or he could be mad and attack whoever tries to aid him or, if one helped and he died, the person might be accused of murder or … I admit I got a bit scared at some point and left.
Another example: A Nigerian friend of mine had an accident somewhere in the South-West of Nigeria. The driver died, my friend was badly insured and who knows in what shape the other passengers were. Cars drove by but nobody did anything. It took five hours until help arrived. That is unimaginable in my country! Here it is illegal to pass the scene of an accident when it is obvious that people are insured and that there is nobody who takes care of them (or at least has called an ambulance).
A final example, now from Europe: When I was a kid, I once took my bike and left for town. The road there is quite curvy, hilly and people drive way too fast on it. Of course, my little brother couldn’t keep his mouth shut and told my mum. So she got all worried but she didn’t have a car. So what did she do? Simple: she went to the next-door neighbour, told him the problem and together they came for me and picked me and my bike up on my way back home.
Please, what Josef Fritzl has done is monstrous. However, don’t make the mistake to over-generalize.
Loomnie, I don’t think Fritzl “was regularly visiting her for sex”, as you are writing. He regularly came to rape his daughter. There’s a difference there.
Loomnie, I don’t think Fritzl “was regularly visiting her for sex”, as you are writing. He regularly came to rape his daughter. There’s a difference there.
Loomnie-
I don’t believe Natascha Kampusch was adopted.
She was kidnapped. May want to be sure all your facts are straight before blogging.
Loomnie-
I don’t believe Natascha Kampusch was adopted.
She was kidnapped. May want to be sure all your facts are straight before blogging.
Sophie, sure, he was regularly raping his daughter. There is no other way to describe a man who locks his daughter up and sexually abuses her than to call her a rapist. Thanks for pointing out the subtleties…
Thanks too Piper for pointing that out. It must have been a slip of finger…I meant to write abducted.
Sophie, sure, he was regularly raping his daughter. There is no other way to describe a man who locks his daughter up and sexually abuses her than to call her a rapist. Thanks for pointing out the subtleties…
Thanks too Piper for pointing that out. It must have been a slip of finger…I meant to write abducted.